The final word on Canonicity - again by


Big Jim Miller was part of an exchange on Twitter yesterday that has spilled over into this morning, in regards to the nature of the comic books and their place within the MLP "canon". Today it looks like Jim has had just about enough and gave a tweet that sounds just about as definitive as we're going to get on the topic:

"Everything is canon until it's not. Nothing is canon until it is. The end.".



Miller does demonstrate that he is familiar with how the disputes arise, by relating the current situation to one of the oldest - the DC comics universe. A canon so convoluted that there is almost no such thing.


This particular resurgence of the debate stems from the concept art seen during the Ponycon director's panel, in which it appeared that the OCs of the comic book staff had been turned into show-animation. Fans again wanted to know if the IDW comics were part of the official canon of the show (which, many readers assert bring large plotholes to the stories).


Big Jim assured readers that "the comics and show will remain separate" before admitting he himself has not actually read them.


Basically in Jim's eyes, it doesn't really matter, just decide for yourself until you're shown otherwise.


Also a proper response.




Comments (37)

  1. >I suggest you to start with Katie Cook's "Reflections" saga where Celestia is OK with causing cosmic scale genocide...

    Is Murrison retarded or just a liar?

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    1. Celestia's actions were literally causing the destruction of two universes.
      She knew what was happening, she was told what would happen, a seal was placed to stop her from traveling between universes to prevent a catastrophe.

      Celestia broke the seal, continued traveling between universes, shit happened, Luna was almost killed and her mind was STILL focused on FabioSomberero.

      You know, just as Celestia behaves in the cartoon!

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    2. Everything is canon until it's not. Nothing is canon until it is

      That's not so hard to decipher, people.

      First sentence = It means if it appears IN THE WORK, it's canon until something else contradicts it.
      Second sentence = if the idea is suggested, it doesn't make it canon until it appears IN THE WORK, where it COULD but that doesn't mean it WILL appear IN THE WORK

      So if it appears IN THE SHOW/comic, it's canon until something else contradicts it IN THE SHOW/comic..
      And a comic things's not canon IN THE SHOW UNTIL it appears IN THE SHOW, where it COULD but that doesn't mean it WILL appear IN THE SHOW.

      And we KNOW that Jim Said the canons will remain separate - think of multiple canons, that helps, right?
      We also KNOW that the writers said that they are free to take ideas but that OBVIOUSLY means that they don't have to or that they even plan to.
      Couple that with the fact that comics were SAID FROM THE START to be separate canon, to quote 'Kinda, nbut not really 100%' which means 'Judge for yourself until otherwise (see article above)'.

      Judge for yourself until otherwise MEANS it's not canon until it's EXPLICITLY SHOWN to be official. Nothing was said to be official about the comics, so there you go.

      That's three times we were told. Three times. Four if you count Jim's two tweets separately.

      So can we shut up now and give HN a break?


      Remember, this is CONCEPT ART that the OCs appeared in. That's ALWAYS speculative. NOTHING is guaranteed. Besides if they appear as OCs that means nothing.

      AND

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  2. "Separate" just means they won't re-do a comic as an episode. Hasbro representatives already explained this at a comic con panel years ago.

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  3. Meh, I haven't bothered to read the comics other than the start of the Chrysalis one. The art style and everything just rubbed me the wrong way. Bunch of glorified fanfiction.

    And honestly, if people want to argue about canonity there's plenty to go over with just the show itself...

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    1. People really need to learn that continuity errors don't make something non-canon.

      Canon is intent. Continuity errors are bad execution of that intent.

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    2. Discord having friends and a pussy girlfriend in the comic rendered Keep Calm and Flutter On invalid, though.

      He was willing to stop being an asshole to avoid losing his first friend ever, then a story where past friends and even a quasi love interest were retroactively introduced happened.

      You can't have both things at once.

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    3. Only if you interpret "never had a friend before" as completely literal and assume that Discord is always honest. Because that's all that's being contradicted here. One line spoken by a character with a history of lying and self-denial.

      The comic itself provided its own explanation. Discord didn't have friends. He had acquaintances and associates that he clearly never liked to let himself get close to. Seemed to me like him acknowledging a friendship prior to Fluttershy was just a matter of him softening up and being able to admit that he cares for others now. If Discord had never known ANY kind of affection whatsoever prior to Fluttershy, no way would he have been so easy to reform. A person who's been treated with nothing but indifference or contempt for their whole life would be an angsty ball of hate, not a fun-loving trickster.

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  4. EqG is not canon, though.

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    1. kek https://twitter.com/mmeghanmccarthy/status/372926669180264448

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    2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhrZxSoLmgA

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  5. >People are actually getting mad over what is and isn't canon

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  6. Personally, I think the show staff should just not be allowed to read the comics at all. Just like they aren't supposed to read other fanfics. Since that's all the integrity the comics have, giving no concern to the characters & world as established in the show.

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    1. Except most fanfiction, even the not-so-good ones, are written by people who actually watched the show and try to write something consistent with the show (unless they're explicitly setting their story in an alternate universe).

      Some comics are really WORSE than fanfiction.

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    2. Neither of you are really being fair here. Yes, the comics have plenty of OOC moments. Cook in particular seems to have trouble keeping characterisation consistent with the show without relying on varying degrees of flanderisation. And Ted Anderson's holiday special was nothing but one fucking awful OOC moment after another (and I will grant that that one was definitely worse than fanfiction). But to imply that the comic writers have no respect for the show, or that the comics are just another form of fanfiction, is being overly dismissive of a series that has a lot of great moments, even in the bad comics.

      Besides which, even the show has had bad episodes, some of which commit all the same sins that you're criticising the comic for. Not to mention you're putting the comics down by comparing them to fanfiction in a franchise where the primary canon has literally had two movies set in a highschool AU.

      I'm just saying, there's a double standard at play here.

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  7. Haha, whoops, I made Horse News. I don't know whether to be proud or slightly ashamed.

    I stand by what I said, though. Given how Murrisson treats the rest of the show staff, Jim is doing his coworkers a disservice by interacting with him at all.

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    1. You're an entitled asshole. Keep telling people how they should and shouldn't behave, that's sure to earn you their trust.

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    2. Let me get this straight, in telling me to keep telling people how they should and shouldn't behave, are you telling me how I should and shouldn't behave? Don't you think that's just a little internally inconsistent?

      But seriously, I don't view it so much as telling Jim how he should behave as trying to inform him of the character of the guy he is interacting with. I let the conversation with Jim drop after providing him with a few links to public tweets that Murrisson has made, he can do what he wants with that information.

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    3. Jim still decided to side with Murrison instead of you.

      Makes me wonder WHY, I mean yeah, the guy is a prick and yet the fucking DIRECTOR seems to favor him over his average commenters, I'm sure there's a very good and logical reason for that but I can't think of any.

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    4. I have a few guesses. You tend to keep talking to the people you know and already talk to, and it's possible that in spite of my suggestion to look at Murrisson's history that he just didn't bother on the assumption that it can't be that bad. Maybe I should have sent him this one instead:

      https://twitter.com/Murrisson/status/427109241678077953
      > @MMeghanMcCarthy @DaChangeling @eddyval @HubTVNetwork @goldenrusset

      > I wish I could hate people to DEATH.
      > Don't believe her lies indeed.

      As best as I can tell it's his fourth tweet ever, and it's very nearly a death threat against McCarthy.

      (Incoming amateur psychoanalysis) Another guess of mine is that Jim knows perfectly well how toxic Murrisson is, and continues to interact with him in order to keep giving him positive interaction. Is so he is a braver man than I am, the last thing I would choose is to be the last guy a random internet stalker likes.

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    5. or maybe youre a faggot and so jim thinks murrison is a lesser evil compared with you

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    6. Stellar argument, you have demolished me.

      I am stricken.

      *dies*

      Delete
  8. Capper, I just re-read
    "Big Jim assured readers that "the comics and show will remain separate" before admitting he himself has not actually read them."

    It sounds liek you're saying 'Sure, he said they'd remain separate, but he's not read them!'

    How does the fact he hasn't read them have any bearing on how trustworthy his answer on canonicity is?
    Or am I reading it wrong?

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    1. He's saying that Jim is VERY trustworthy in this, because he HASN'T read them. How can the comics become show canon if the show staff aren't even aware of what happens in them in the first place?

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  9. >people being this autistic over a cartoon about colorful horses canon.

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  10. CAN THE HIATUS PLEASE STOP SO DEBATES LIKE THIS CAN DIE!?

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  11. Lol Equestria Daily had to publish a whole damage control article after they published the first one.
    This finally confirms they are under Hasbro's grip.

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    1. And now you know why HN is necessary and doesn't have ads.

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    2. Not officially, but they are the most well known and highest-trafficked, so they kind of have to favor Hasbro by virtue of being so prolific.

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    3. In other words, they are shills.
      What else is new, J? The sky being blue, ice being cold and the comic not being canon since day one?

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  12. Why do people care so much? It's a cartoon for children for fuck's sake

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    1. Because Cook started writing shit and now everyone is on edge.

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    2. Well, then, Anon, good to know that you have the expectations of a little child.

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    3. It's a show for children designed to also be enjoyable by parents (adults), which is why we are watching in the first place.

      A story designed to be enjoyable only by children tend to be pretty awful.

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  13. Considering all fiction is a lie, for something to be canon, the lie has to be convincing. If I am not convinced, it is not canon to me.

    Again, fiction is a lie. Lie convincingly, faggots.

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